(Photos of David and Kate with Zachary; Shirley being escorted from court). Cpl. A few weeks after, Zachary's birthday party, the Bagbys and Shirley took the toddler swimming, an, activity he usually enjoyed. Cpl. Details aplenty as this book includes legal cases, quoted interviews, diary portions, and anything you can imagine.This is a complete emotional roller coaster so buckle up and be prepared. Shockingly, despite everything that happened both on and after the show, Kate and David made another go of it. Was she lying? Zachary Andrew Turner was born July 18, 2002. Meanwhile, Turner had a new obsession. Click above for unlimited listening to select audiobooks, Audible Originals, and podcasts. KATE: It was shocking, but not a surprise. Dance with the Devil is a eulogy for a dead son, an elegy for lives cut tragically short, and a castigation of a broken system. David can go from nearly shaking in anger when he talks about the murder to almost sobbing in sadness over the memory of his boy. Switch between reading the Kindle book & listening to the Audible narration with, Get the Audible audiobook for the reduced price of $7.49 after you. MORRISON: The Bagbys said that Shirley would later apologize for, her reaction. In January 2003, the Canadian appeals court ordered her freed while the extradition case moved forward. It is a cry for change in the Canadian justice system that allowed his sons killer to roam free. But I used to look at her hand and think, it. Mr. SHEARS: When we woke up in the morning, realized they weren't there. Why? Source: Kate Griffith/Instagram, David Benavidez/Instagram. To speed the process they agreed to conditions imposed by Turner, including that they be searched before every visit. "We never expected it. Its rage with me, he says. The suicide, he says, confirmed what he never wanted to believe that his mother was a murderer. MORRISON: She kept trying to get between you and the baby. I would have to dream up some reason to go over, there in the middle of the night, to--for me to just appear on her doorstep, Mr. BAGBY: Turned out I wasn't. March 17, 2007 at 7:39 p.m. Kate and David Bagby knew exactly what they were going to do. They might as well have sent a taxi to her to help take him out and drown him. The reason we go through the lawyers is so that we. Mr. BAGBY: She told the court she was afraid we would harm the baby. The documentary was also made with the intention of being given to Andrew's son Zachary to explain the full story of his family. But Andrew's murder was only the first in a string of tragic events. Keith Morrison reports. We lived for that hour every week.. He loved to laugh, Kate says. The title of the documentary, "Dear Zachary" jumped out at me because I have a son named Zachary. Andrew Bagby, 28, was their light, their love, their boy. There is only so much that Kurt could fit in an hour and a half and I learned so much more by reading things from David's own words. You can't tell them this over the phone. If she had her way, we would not have had any visitation at, MORRISON: Coming up, fighting not just to see their grandson, but. That one comes back a lot. "It was a policeman and he was telling me: 'Your son is dead under suspicious circumstances.' Mr. BAGBY: Oh, this ranks right up there. I was just gone. Then when he sort of tried to get her to go away, she wouldnt.. "We had to deal with her to get to Zachary.". They forged a relationship with the woman they believed killed their son so they could see Zachary, their only grandchild. Initially, Andrew's close friend Kurt Kuenne, a filmmaker, intended the film as a personal memorial and scrapbook so that Zachary could know the kind of person his father was. For the second time, the Bagbys were left stunned at the leniency of the courts. I was lucky to get my hands on a copy of this hard to find book and was glad I did. Unidentified Man #22: We will develop policy specific to children. This year is different. Mr. KUENNE: (Kate holding Zachary) Hello, bud. Everyone could see how far off the deep end Shirley Turner was, including the very justice system that continued to set her free and place an innocent child in her arms. ', KATE: (Audio recording) Yeah. Well, I was hurt in an, accident. Except he picked up as this reporter was leaving a voicemail explaining the call from Newfoundland to Sunnyvale, Calif. Now that Zachary was starting to walk, he was free to make a beeline to. But that is what the Bagbys. If one thinks the American justice system is slow moving and against the victim most times, then one should encounter the Canadian justice system. Cancel online anytime. MORRISON: There might have been a particular reason for this. Mr. BAGBY: And part of Andrew's problem was, I think, he was just too nice to say, you know, `Get the hell out of my life. One day he walked into the electronics shop where David worked. But with special people, yes. I'm sure she died thinking she had won, but I also hope her she is living her justice now, in hell. MORRISON: Ah, but there was a lot to say about Andrew. ', Because I know you would be worried if we disappeared for a couple of days or, MORRISON: Was she planning something? Kate said Shirley insisted on keeping Zachary in, the deep pool, which frustrated him because he couldn't move on his own. I said, `This woman was in town. How could a woman be in jail on a suicide watch one day and be taking care of his grandson the next? When they pulled up at Turners place, the mother slipped Zachary out of his car seat. MORRISON: It's no easy thing to be a doctor in America. With Zachary strapped to her stomach with a sweater, she jumped into the Atlantic Ocean. GARDNER: (Audio recording) Yes, ma'am, I am. Really? That is not a spoiler, as it is on the back of the book. When search suggestions are available use up and down arrows to review and enter to select. The project took a tragic turn and became a catalyst for legal change when Zachary didn't live to see it. The Bagbys attended the hearing, of course, and, could not quite believe their ears when they heard the judge's ruling. By this stage, he had moved to a new job in the US. Mr. SHEARS: I thought they were great with him. MORRISON: In Kurt Kuenne's documentary, Clark Simpson, one of Andrew's close friends at the hospital, remembers that November morning just two weeks later when Shirley surprised Andrew again. Some time after 1 a.m., she sat in the car and apparently mixed a bottle of sleeping pills with Zacharys formula. (Talking in group) This is not about money. He was especially delighted to hear that David and Kate Bagby are once again hauling out boxes of Christmas decorations that went unused for so long. The Turner report says their relationship soon deteriorated. Justice Gail Welsh justified allowing Shirley to walk because there was "no evidence" of Shirley having mental dysfunctions that made her a danger to society. 7:30 I'll be at your house.'. More than a month passed before Turner was finally arrested in Canada on December 21 but, within hours she was out on bail until she could be extradited to the US. "Kate and I are very close and that helps. But how? you have anywhere to put that, or that Ms. TURNER: (Audio recording) Not yet. When I was growing up, she just seemed like just a normal mom, Sheers, 24, says. She was, pregnant, and the baby was Andrew's. By Zacharys birthday in July 2003, Turners fight against extradition had suffered another blow. I didn't even know why I was going, other than Mom didn't want. He's a little bleary eyed, but. I had a son I used, (Photo of young Kate; photo of Kate and David; photo of Kate and Andrew), KATE: And then suddenly you're in the pits, and then you have to learn that, MORRISON: Two weeks after Zachary's murder, the press covered a, Mr. BAGBY: (Press conference) We believe that the legal system helped her to, MORRISON: Charging the child protection authorities dropped the, ball, and that a disastrous bail system allowed a probable first-degree, (Zachary; court document; Shirley and Andrew). Zachary's corpse described him as looking up to the sky. Or by navigating to the user icon in the top right. While the offense with which she is charged is a violent and serious one, the court ruled, it was not directed at the public at large., On Jan. 10, David says, we had to give Zachary back to her.. She eventually kills Zachary in a murder-suicide. Both reactions are legitimate, prompted by the same tragic loss, David says. Audio CD. Instead they focused on their physician sons legacy, while contemplating ways to honor his memory. The couple had met in medical school at Memorial University of Newfoundland. will not hurt Zachary, period. Now called Dear Zachary, it would be a "letter" to Andrew's son about the father he would never meet. He grew into a smart kid, an Eagle Scout who loved to read. So, be prepared., The emotion that was shown was beyond description, really, Snow says. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Andrew_Bagby_and_Zachary_Turner 314 [deleted] 5 mo. How could Kate Bagby from Sunnyvale have anything to do with murder? And we were going to be his savior.. Those words, David says, are burned into my heart.. What a flaky person. Around 11:30 PM Shirley came downstairs, asking to borrow T.J.'s car. She posts with her new love often and is very open about how happy she feels in the relationship. Mr. BAGBY: I have a lot of trouble with those things too, and I suspect what really goes on, what's called intuition, is really a very, very complex calculation of lots of little indicators, little things that Andrew said on the phone maybe. And I saw that night her malignancy. Inspired by his mother's tales of interesting medical cases and wonderful patients, Andrew decided he would be a doctor. (David; Kate and Zachary; Shirley and Zachary). Being from Newfoundland,I was well aware of the happenings in this book as they were happening. Just from that, conversation, you could kind of get the sense that she didn't want Zachary, MORRISON: And for the Bagbys, Shirley issued what sounded somehow. He and Kate say they know now that they have more than anger to sustain them. Mr. BAGBY: What a flake. On November 3, 2001, he broke up with Turner at the airport before putting her on a plane back to Council Bluffs, 1,300 miles away. would now have to be something else, a visual letter to Andrew's baby. And now I want to read the book. We don't--we don't gush very much. A three-volume report released in 2006 by coroner Peter Markesteyn blamed fundamental flaws in the province's social services for Zachary's preventable death. His medical studies in Newfoundland were complete. Kind of panic sets in, I guess, and that's when it all hit the fan, I guess. The full hour will not be available online. (Supreme Court building; Shirley being escorted from court; photos of Kate and. The rest of the documentary describes the fallout of Zachary's death, but for his family and for the judicial system. The public declaration all but removed the Bagbys doubts. We were in the way, I guess, of her trying to go to school. (Photo of Andrew; cell phone towers; photo of Shirley; maps; suburban street; photo of house; newspaper clipping; photo of Shirley; maps; cell phone tower; Shirley in court; court documents; flashing police lights; American flag. I agree whole heartedly, that things need to change. The youngster's death followed the killing of his father, Andrew Bagby the couple's only child. KATE: You were always afraid that she was going to find something. He was like Andrew. "There, is no indication of a psychological disorder that would give concern about, potential harm to the public generally as her crime, while violent, was, specific in nature." He didnt know what to make of it then. Was it a tight bond? I was just hoping more from this book, but I can understand it. The ending was so shocking, I was screaming with David Bagby That bitch! Mr. BAGBY: He's now engaged to this lovely girl, and he's going to go to med school. Said, `Oh, no, I really can't.'. Turner and Zachary were in the shallow kiddie pool. David, the analytical engineer with the scientific mind. David Bagby, 61, has written a book about much of it, Dance with the Devil: A Memoir of Murder and Loss, scheduled for release late this month by Canadian publisher Key Porter Books Limited. `Are you Kathleen Bagby? I said, `Yes. He said, `You have to call the coroner in Greensburg. I knew then, it had to be Andrew.. KATE: People thought she was delicate, you know, and looked KATE: She couldn't kill. Ms. TURNER: (Audio recording) I do have a complaint, finally. KEITH MORRISON reporting: He was everybody's idea of the perfect best man. GARDNER: (Audio recording) I have to tell you that Andrew is dead. As the Bagbys settled into their renewed life, Turner pursued an appeal of her November jailing. He was such a good baby. Zachary was learning some words well, words he understood that Kate and David were sure they understood, too. Theyd fly back to Sunnyvale to hold a memorial service. a--with a hand grenade in the kitchen with the pin already pulled. "The birth of Zachary gave us part of Andrew back," says Kate. How could they dither for months and months. She spent the day in his house across from the hospital, reading e-mail and checking eBay bids for a Barbie doll she wanted. "She was not the woman you wanted involved with your son. Right? (Photo of Kate, Zachary and Shirley; photo of David, Zachary and Shirley; photo of Shirley and Zachary; photos of Zachary with Shirley and Kate), Mr. BAGBY: Our usual policy was just to let her go. And now it's just. IRS delays tax deadline for Bay Area, but California hasn't followed: What should you do? An autopsy report would show that an anti-anxiety drug, prescribed by the very psychiatrist who put up Shirley's bail money had been, mixed into Zachary's formula. Christopher Snow, of St. Michael and All Angels Church, which the Bagbys attended in Newfoundland. Authorities later determined his former lover Dr.. Mr. SHEARS: Mm, yeah. However awkward Shirley Turner made it, they were sweet, cooperative. ", He started to cry and reached out for Kate, but Turner held him back and said firmly: "You can't always be with your grandparents.". As always you can unsubscribe at any time. ', MORRISON: But they'd have to wait almost a month. They drowned Aug. 18, 2003, in what was ruled a murder-suicide. For three seasons now, Temptation Island has been a social experiment to see if long-term couples are able to fix their broken relationships by going on an island full of attractive singles. The couple were so scared of upsetting Turner and losing access to Zachary they forced themselves to be cordial. I'm rarely the kind of gal that cries during movies or books and I was sobbing. MORRISON: But Shirley would make it tough for Andrew to do that. You can, just--there's nothing. Woman #9: to make that journey was awful. She landed a residency at a hospital in Iowa, several states away but still close enough to allow occasional weekends with Andrew in Pennsylvania. Your recently viewed items and featured recommendations, Dance with the Devil: A Memoir of Murder and Loss. This means that we may include adverts from us and third parties based on our knowledge of you. The show takes four couples who are having trouble in their relationship and separates them from one another. ', KATE: He's so loved. The idea is for both individuals to be tempted by the singles, and ultimately decide if their partners are their perfect matches. Not always. It also analyzed reviews to verify trustworthiness. In this brutally tragic true story a Father (David Bagby, author) and Mother deal with the slaying of their son by his ex-girlfriend. And it was the happiest they had been since the days before their son was murdered. Zachary thought he could just walk. I can only imagine this book to be heartbreaking. "It was like being at war," adds David. Then, on August 16, six weeks before Turner was to appear in court, the Bagbys went with her and Zachary to a swimming pool. When the Bagbys visited the mortuary and saw Zachary's tiny body covered by a white sheet, they fell apart. MORRISON: Zachary Andrew Turner, the son of murder victim Andrew, Bagby and his accused killer Shirley Turner, was born on July 18th 2002, eight, months after the young doctor's murder. The next day, his body was found riddled with bullets. At least he might have asleep when she went in. Zachary held his hands out, reaching for Kate.. MORRISON: Was it reasonable for the court to trust her? MORRISON: Was she taunting them, they wondered? This is tragically cut with one of Andrew's friends remembering that he was never latewhich is how he knew, when Andrew didn't arrive to his house as planned, that something was terribly wrong. Another guy and I said, `Sure. MORRISON: Andrew Bagby. They did everything they could, and more than most would be able to try to find justice for their son, while trying to care for Zachary in the worst possible circumstances. Zachary's life, even talking to her eldest son and his girlfriend about it. MORRISON: Coming up, Andrew dead. They would go to Pennsylvania to collect the body and belongings of their only child. They sound like wonderful people who were needlessly tortured by a horrible psychopath, It is gut wrenching to read the details and to hear how much both Andrew and David were loved by both David and his wife, Reviewed in the United States on April 27, 2016. Get help and learn more about the design. While battling the extremely long court system in Canada, they did all they could to keep things civil between themselves and the accused murderer of their son. It is gut wrenching to read the details and to hear how much both Andrew and David were loved by both David and his wife. For parents Dave and Kate, the pain was unbearablebut Andrew's murder was only the first in a string of tragic events. In November 2002, a year after Andrew's murder, the judge in Turner's extradition case finally threw out the queries raised by her lawyer and put Turner in jail, ruling there was enough evidence to warrant a trial. It wasn't just to monitor the, extradition process. Very powerful story, artfully told. Spent casings matched Turner's handgun and a witness saw a car similar to hers parked next to Andrew's car. That's what Kurt does, he's an independent filmmaker. It is a story of their love for an infant and a tale of their determination to care for the child, even if it meant learning to live with the woman they were sure had killed their son. thing, because up until Andrew was murdered, I was a Pollyanna. Some changes, including increased spending and a review of social worker training, have been made to the child protection system since the tragedy. murderer in check. I had two sisters already, so a brother, because now I'd have somebody that I can teach about hockey and, (Shears and Zachary; photo of Shears and Zachary). Mr. KUENNE: You know, he said--she said, `Look, I'm not looking for another husband. Id come in and Id be excited, Kate says. It doesnt go away.. It's pretty easy to analyze what the, options are. Kate and David were robbed of their son and grandson, and the world was robbed of a great Dr. and person. They quit their jobs and moved from California to Newfoundland. David and Katehad been together for three years when they came on the show. killing Zachary in a murder-suicide. And then, November 2001, Andrew Bagby was shot dead in a state park not far from the hospital in which the young doctor was a resident, and his devoted parents all but lost the will to live. KATE: You get a different kind of relationship with God after this kind of. 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