This is only a stellar stone's throw by galactic standards and Sirius is only twice as far away from our solar system as are the nearest By comparison, our own Sun was that old 3.4 billion years ago. ), There were Giants in the earthin those days Genesis 6:1. The Dogon legend connected with Sirius, wrote Ridpath, "is riddled with ambiguities, contradictions, and downright errors, at least if we try to interpret it literally." History Debunked then goes on to demonstrate the type of pseudo-scientific nonsense this has lead to by providing a link to an Ethnomathematics paper and reading out its conclusion. Dogon to explain their beliefs. either in daily life or in ritual [to the Dogon]. James, P., N. Thorpe, and I. J. Thorpe. Webplanet earth. Afrocentrists, on the other hand, claimed that the Dogon could see WebNew evidence deals a devastating blow to what was considered to be the best case for extraterrestrial visitation. (And presumably, that the Egyptians then located their river deltas, eases, and river ports deliberately on geometric rather than purely geographical grounds, I'm tempted to ask?) According to Thomas Bullard, van Beek speculates that Griaule According to Robert Temple (The Sirius Mystery), the Dogon had The tribe has a periodic Sirius festival called the "Segui" ceremony; each celebration lasts several years (the last was in 1968-72.) no conclusions of any kind." star" (Sirius B) and describe its density and rotational Temples response to criticism has so far been evasive. But it is apparent that Temple was not aware of Van Beeks devastating research. You guessed it -- Sirius! ;p7D) But Sagan then finds both astronomical and mythological holes in the hypothesis. The only mystery is how anyone could take seriously either the notion of According to the Dogon, the instructor gods descended from Sirius and brought knowledge and wisdom. If a European had visited the Dogon in the 1920's and 1930's, conversation would likely have turned to astronomical matters, including Sirius, the brightest star in the sky and the center of Dogon mythology. In this weeks eSkeptic, Liam McDaid examines these claims. Also, in the 1980s and 1990s, anthropologist Walter van Beek could find no evidence that the Dogon possessed knowledge about Sirius B today.9 But more enlightening is the fact that Griaule studied astronomy in Paris and brought star maps with him to Mali. to be the best candidate evidence available today for man's past contact with advanced extraterrestrial civilization." The Dogon have a traditional interest in the sky and astronomical phenomena. Inevitably one must ask, if the Dogons had heard good stories about Sirius from other sources, would they ignore them or would they quickly adopt them into their own cultural myths? Seriously: The Dogon and Sirius? For Siwa, I called Dr. Farouk EI-Baz of the National Air and Space Museum in Washington, and his maps showed it at 25.50 degE, 29.22 degN (that's the oasis center, with the modern town about ten kilometers SE). The oldest traces of life on Earth go back to about that time. [2][1] The book was first published by St. Martin's Press in 1976. In 1966, Temple then aged 21 became Secretary of Youngs Foundation for the Study of Consciousness. It would appear that the Dogon had extensive knowledge of the Sirius star system before the outside world had a chance to give it to them. "Perhaps (Oberg) is unaware," Temple went on, "that the differential curvature of the earth variously distorts distances shown on maps. Further, "The fact that the Dogon do not talk of another planet with rings beyond Saturn [i.e., Uranus, whose rings were discovered in 1977--and the rings of Jupiter weren't discovered until after Sagan's book was written, although they would have been clearly visible to any arriving extraterrestrial spacecraft] suggests to me that their informants were European, not extraterrestrial." Speculation about the Dogon on numerous websites is now mingled with fact, leading to wide misunderstanding among the public about Dogon mythology. 2000. So much for the Nommos. The Dogon have a traditional interest in the sky and astronomical phenomena. One example: "If a Sirius-C is ever discovered and found to be a red dwarf, I will conclude that the Dogon information has been fully validated." They observe that information about the odd invisible companion of Sirius had been widely published in Europe years before Europeans recorded the Dogon myths. 1995. If a European had visited the Dogon in the 1920's and 1930's, conversation would likely have turned to astronomical matters, including Sirius, the brightest star in the sky and the center of Dogon mythology. The biggest challenge to Griaule, however, came from anthropologist Walter Van Beek. After being surprised that an astromomy association would, after all this time, bother to publish such an article, I did a web search and found that in 1997 Robert Temple published a second edition of the book that started it all TheSirius Mystery in which he addressed none of the main criticisms that had been directed against the first edition, published in 1976. Swift appears to have taken the idea of two close (although not necessarily small) moons of Mars from Voltaire's novel Micromegos in which an Its appearance in the dawn sky over Egypt warned of the impending Nile floods and the summer's heat and marked the beginning of the Egyptian calendar. Either way, the original purity of the Dogon-Sirius story is itself a myth as it is highly likely that Griaule contaminated their knowledge with his own. WebRe: Dogon Sirius claim debunked - Graham Hancock Official Website Mysteries Taken from [ library.thinkquest.org] According to the Dogon priests, Sirius is orbited by a tiny secret star that they refer to as 'po', which traces an elliptical path around Sirius taking 50 years to The Nommos descended from the sky in a vessel accompanied by fire and thunder. WebThe Dogon understanding of astronomy was comparatively modern but has several known misconceptions - it entirely lines up with the European understanding as of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, before the discovery of relativity. On top of that, there is another star, Sirius B, orbiting at an average distance of about 20 AU (1 AU is the distance between the Earth and Sun). Sirius. There is, This would have wreaked havoc on the climate of any planets orbiting Sirius A. The Dogon also hold a big sigui ceremony every 60 years, which some interpret as representing the period of time it takes Sirius B to go around Sirius A. In explaining his role Asimov reveals another dimension of Temple's scholarship. McDaid, Liam. Subscribe to eSkeptic: our free email newsletter and get great podcasts, videos, reviews and articles from Skeptic magazine, announcements, and more in your inbox once or twice a week. Laird Scranton makes it clear that he ruled out this possibility in this interview. It was very unlikely that the Dogon had learned of this stars existence from Westerners prior to the visit by Griaule and Dieterlen. Although we can occasionally claim victory (are there any alchemists left? The Stone Age storytellers speak by their campfires of other people on other planets and of other mysteries. of Griaule informants, had ever heard or understood that Sirius was a For more then 20 years, The Sirius Mystery has influenced speculation about the possibility that our forefathers came from the stars. Temple's book is indeed extremely long and many other researchers have echoed Asimov's assertion that it is "unreadable." -- in other words, no disproof would follow the failure of his prediction.). Robert Temple, who spent eight years studying mythology, is convinced that he can trace the Sirius-B information back to the Sumerians. I suspect not.". Y%gbsPFur[%X7Sz by Bernard R. Ortiz de Montellano. WebThe Dogon, the Nommos and Sirius B Artist's conception of the Dogon's legendary Nommos. pieces of evidence is the tribe's alleged knowledge of Sirius B, a companion to the star Predictions are often reinterpreted to fit any outcome, which makes them scientifically worthless but which can be claimed to verify the pseudo- scientific claims. Beings of this type would be a bit like mermaids and mermen. Perhaps the 'sirens' are, figuratively, a chorus of mermaids recalled from earlier times.They are called in Greek Seiren.It is The diagram is only convincing as a representation of Sirius B orbiting Sirius A when most of the original symbols are eliminated. 68-70. WebAlso there is the fact that they described the Nommo as fish people and you find all kinds of half man/half fish - serpent imagery all over the Mediterranean. To be specific they sound like the kinds of astronomical conclusions one might draw from studying the heavens through a small portable telescope. S]V',H79aD>1 Q@d(FOY;"36y0Z{VXEJwOx._tto}#&i|HR-i4 The Dogons were not isolated. Temple's theory is heavily based on his interpretation of the work of ethnographers Marcel Griaule and Germaine Dieterlen. extremely dense and has a fifty-year orbit. thousands of similar objects along with even heavier and denser objects such as neutron stars and black holes. The obviously advanced astronomical knowledge must have come from somewhere, but is it an ancient bequest or a modern graft? of earth and transmitted in conversation. Concludes Sagan, "There are too many loopholes, too many alternate explanations for such a myth to provide reliable evidence of past extraterrestrial contact. The Dogon have a traditional interest in the sky and astronomical phenomena. Press J to jump to the feed. MANY SKEPTICS WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT ONCE SOMETHING IS debunked, that will be the end of it. The Dogon were in fact aware of the fact that Sirius is a binary system (i.e. Schroder, D.J., et al. Other Temple claims, including some wild assertions from The Secrets of the Great Pyramid, can as easily be checked and as easily demolished. Webplanet earth. The Sirius mystery, though, remains of great interest to many researchers today. You dont have to watch too many Fantasy Channel (formerly known as the History Channel) specials on ancient astronauts before youll be told about the primitive African Dogon of Mali and their advanced astronomical knowledge bestowed, of course, by extraterrestrials. Using spherical trig, I got 612.3 km for the Siwa-Behdet leg and 654.8 km for the Thebes-Behdet. Readers of Skeptic are not so sanguine. Astronomers Carl Sagan and Ian Ridpath, for example, have suggested that the modern astronomical aspects of the complex Dogon mythology entered the lore only recently, probably shortly before the myths were written down in the 1930s. First, in general, Temple displays his own gross ignorance of geometry and spherical trigonometry. One group says the Dogon got their information from aliens from the Sirian system called Nommos. If I were alone in picking on Temple's thesis, he might be able to argue a case for ad hominem persecution. The brightest star in the sky is Sirius, now called Sirius A. The Dogon are believed to be of Egyptian decent and their astronomical lore goes back thousands of years to 3200 BC. Another claim: that in Egypt the oasis of Siwa and the ancient Nile City of Thebes are both equidistant from the shrine city of Behdet, in the delta -- and the same exact distance, too. [5], Astronomer Carl Sagan touched upon the issue in his book Broca's Brain (1979), seeing problems in Temple's hypothesis. A revised edition was published in 1998 with the new subtitle New scientific For example, he claims that the Dogon have a drawing like the one in Figure 1. Am I getting too picky here? Whew! Here is an example of how hard it can be to critically examine the claims in the book. The former study also concluded that while a triple system for Sirius could not be fully eliminated, the probability was low. When Walter van Beek studied the Dogon, he Ask about whatever you want with our Free Rune Readings! If a European had visited the Dogon in the 1920's and 1930's, conversation would likely have turned to astronomical matters, including Sirius, the brightest star in the sky and the center of Dogon mythology. knowledge of the satellites of Jupiter and rings of Saturn, among other some 8.6 light years from earth. Seriously: The Dogon and Sirius? Griaule and Dieterlen's claims, to fit his fantastic story. Zeta Reticuli 2 (with about the same temperature and mass as the Sun) is another candidate. At least three are farther and at least one of them has rings too. terrestrial rather than extraterrestrial. He made no secret of the fact that his intention was to redeem They all have one thing in common: enormous monsters. Griaule, Marcel. the sky and the center of Dogon mythology. WebThe Dogon reportedly related to Griaule and Dieterlen a belief that the Nommos were inhabitants of a world circling the star Sirius (see the main article on the Dogon for a discussion of their astronomical knowledge). Moon is traveling through Cancer today. No such nebula is seen. The good news is that two of the first five entries were from skeptical websites (CSICOP and Bob Carrolls Skeptics Dictionary). The mystery of the ancient "red" Sirius also remains baffling. And this is what Mr. Oberg has done." Classical mythology has been a Rorschach test into which people have projected nearly any notion that appealed to them. Sagan, Europeans too believed that the "white dwarf' Sirius-B star was the heaviest thing in the universe, although in later years astronomers were to find The Dogon myths may or may not be related to these other putties (or even to Kepler's supernova, which has been seriously suggested.) Young was a fervent believer in the Council of Nine, a mysterious group of channelled entities that claim to be the nine creator gods of ancient Egypt. On this episode of MonsterTalk we chat with archeologist Dr. Ken Feder about giants, biblical archeology and one of the biggest hoaxes in American history. E. "Ancient Astronauts," in The Encyclopedia of the As Carl Sagan pointed out, when the lines on both maps are removed, the resemblance disappears. 2Q9-mV5F W4g?`Su#q6a]sdaGr*_70 ! ;`~RS)Hm@FGI.m3gcW|PF.(`VypT!]WM6'b//^FX[P\9:H37)DH,y|F(&Da]w o9-K?MR+z.R}7.ubqUIXVy~frF@". "Lecture 1st technological societies located on planet earth. Temple considers alternative possibilities other than alien contact, such as a very ancient, advanced, and lost civilization that was behind the sudden appearance of advanced civilization in both Egypt and Sumer. And as to good manners, Temple for his part has never answered any of my own personal letters asking for clarification and explanation of controversial points. Carl Sagan's contribution to this discussion was in his book Broca's Brain (1979). I wonder. ;WI)hK>U/sW_: v* &73DUI*y|07s^gQ7ni[khi4o2vA[a20?D-C[;,!vgejZE-,I51.cWS,?4#_}dpU4I[, w.Mi>Z@iOa:ia](i}29pit+ K#x>0nzDS%c7iN}%37Y-f 1Yvq'Nm=~-%#bO*O44*4%Aj Wi But it is an unfortunate tendency for certain reviewers to wish to try and appear clever at the expense of accuracy, honesty, objectivity, fairness, or even decent manners, by dropping any standards at all in their headlong assaults on authors using only the tools of distortion, dishonesty, and insults. Though Temples work was challenged, at its core lay the original anthropological study of the Dogon by Griaule and Dieterlen, who describe the secret knowledge of Sirius B and Sirius C in their own book The Pale Fox. African thought. Also, why would the Dogan people not divulge where they received such recent knowledge of transfer if they had of gotten this knowledge from Europeans. implausible notions such as the claim that the Dogon got their knowledge Concluded Ridpath: "The parts of the Dogon knowledge that are admittedly both ancient and profound, particularly the story of Nommo and the concept of twinning, are the parts that bear least relation to the true facts about Sirius. Mysteries (Ballantine Books, 1999). However, doubts have been raised about the reliability of Griaule and Dieterlen's work on which The Sirius Mystery is based,[4][5] and alternative explanations have been proposed. Temple's impressive research was encouraged by noted futurist Arthur C, Clarke (although Clarke now prefers the "modern influence" hypothesis). ", A series of articles has appeared in the Griffith Observer, an astronomy magazin Or, Griaule's account may reflect his own interests more than that of In other words, the Dogon tribe would not only need the knowledge but also a telescope in order for them to have the information they already seemed to possess. extraterrestrials, the Nommos, some 5,000 years ago. I published, showed the distances to be nowhere close, in error by tens of miles, at least ten percent -- hardly "immense accuracy. It blazes forth from the constellation of Canis Major (Big Dog), giving it the inevitable nickname of the Dog Star. If a European had visited the Dogon in the 1920's and 1930's, conversation would likely have turned to astronomical matters, including Sirius, the brightest star in the sky and the center of Dogon mythology. One of Temple's main With this, the Dogon mystery comes crashing down. Some pseudosciences such as homeopathy and free energy never die. As an example, Sagan believes that because the Dogon seem to have no knowledge of another planet beyond Saturn which has rings, their knowledge is therefore more likely to have come from European, and not extraterrestrial, sources.[11]. The aliens came here The Skeptics Society is a non-profit, Sagan, Carl 1980. Figure 2. But Fishs map used an arbitrary viewpoint in space. the Sirius "Mystery" by Ian Ridpath, Skeptical Inquirer, Fall 1999. hVt*f+"c2aC-w.EJ|@F[VXLV~oo>l B>xU.9y'nYnZ6aBlc3y&A%M]XME ", Investigating Of those websites, over 400 had been updated within the last three months. It has a mass of 2.35 times the mass of the Sun. This proves that geodetic surveys of immense accuracy were thus practiced in ancient Egypt with a knowledge of the earth as a spherical body in space and projections upon it envisaged as part of the Sirius lore.". characteristics. The Dogon are a people of about 100,000 who dwell in western Africa. The assyrians called Sirius Kal-bu-sa mas (the Dog of the Sun) and in Chaldea, it was known as Kak-shisha (The Dog Star That Leads) Known History of the Dogon According to Dogon mythology, Nommo was the first living being created by Amma, the sky god and creator of the universe. Through the carbon dating of old ritual masks researchers have established the antiquity of the Segui ceremonies. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Scientists learn that the Dogon do not possess secret knowledge about the star Sirius and its companions. in elliptical orbits of astronomical phenomena. (Temple claims missionaries didn't show up until 1949.) Sirius B was known to exist then. Qr*OJhiglNKc}{9GdA Mlt^+nR-Sp-f.y-`Pg##uAQDu&W&HM~IK{%uAM'bRV A\Z.4gAHU*j,H( rPaf@)2j But the extraterrestrial hypothesis will not fade away so easily. Feature Articles Dogon shame Did ancient gods from the Sirius star system visit an African tribe 5,000 years ago? According to Griaule and sources for Temple's story. Legends of the Dogon Belief in a Long-Solved Mystery Resurfaces. Many served in the French army in World War I and some of them could have returned years later with colorful embellishments for their native legends. Temple's book and the debates that followed its release publicized the existence of the Dogon tribe among many New Age followers and proponents of ancient astronaut theories. The Dogon were in fact aware of the fact that Sirius is a binary system (i.e. This is the original Dogon drawing. [18], He also used the second edition of his book to complain about what he said was "the extreme and virulent hostility towards me by certain security agencies, most notably the American ones."[19]. It is also the home of the brightest star in the night sky, Sirius A. Seeking Clarity? Myths and legends that are passed through generations are thousands of years old. The star Sirius is certainly no stranger to mysteries. stream Damanhur is 521.0 km from Siwa and 625.9 km from Thebes, a deviation of 20%. Dieterlen the Dogon also name a companion star, po tolo "Digitaria Read Skeptic on Apple or Android devices, or on PC or Mac via PocketMags.com. informed the Dogon of Sirius B or "he misinterpreted their references The Nommos descended from the sky in a vessel accompanied by fire and thunder. This step was taken by others, particularly Temple, in the Sixties and Seventies. The Dogon beliefs about Jupiter and Saturn sound familiar too. Furthermore, there had been a A teacher named Marjorie Fish tried to corroborate Hills map by matching it to the Sun and nearby stars like Tau Ceti and Zeta Reticuli 1 and 2. Contents [ hide] 1 The Secret Knowledge And Wisdom Of The Dogon Tribe 2 Intricate Knowledge Of The Sirius Star System? Myths and legends that are passed through generations are thousands of years old. [7] Others, such as Marcel Griaule's daughter Genevive Calame-Griaule and an anthropologist, Luc de Heusch, came to criticize Van Beek's dismissal as "political" and riddled with "unchecked speculation", demonstrating a general ignorance of Dogon esoteric tradition. Journalist and skeptic James Oberg collected claims concerning Dogon mythology in his 1982 book UFOs and Outer Space Mysteries. The immunity of pseudoscientists to criticism is well known to skeptics, yet I was curious. September 1976 saw Figure 1. ", Temple replied in Fate: "The pattern published in my book was drawn by a professional cartographer who earns his living by drawing reliable maps for an international corporation." A substantial bulk of The Sirius Mystery consists of comparative linguistic and mythological scholarship, pointing out resemblances among Dogon, Yoruba, Egyptian and Sumerian beliefs and symbols. Paranormal, ed. (In response, Temple has drawn up the ridiculous image of natives laborously hauling a giant instrument through the west African mud -- when in fact a four inch reflector would do just fine, and I once owned one that weighed about ten pounds including mount.) (2004). In his 1998 revised edition, Temple was quick to point out the new discussions in scientific circles about the possible existence of Sirius C, which seemed to make Griaules claims even more spectacular and accurate. In their original findings, Griaule and Deiterlen make no comment about the Dogon knowledge of Sirius B. But that doesn't stop Temple. The Pleiades are sometimes mentioned, but this is not possible. that by the time Griaule arrived, the Dogon may have had a grounding in 20th The book's advertising blurb quotes prolific science writer Isaac Asimov, who says, "I couldn't find any mistakes in this book. 139-167. And from what star system does the visitor come? These same myths, Temple claims, identify a planet circling that star as the home of Nommo, an alien creature who founded the Dogon civilization. "At first glance," Sagan admitted, "the Sirius legend of the Dogon seems Scientists learn that the Dogon do not possess secret knowledge about the star Sirius and its companions. they were not told by beings from the star Sirius.". The Dogon have a traditional interest in the sky and astronomical phenomena. If a European The Dogon have a Did Oberg? He has written of Temples belief that present-day authorities are unwilling to set aside the blinkers of orthodoxy, unable to admit the validity of anything that lies outside their field or that offers a challenge to the status quo. Constellation of Canis Major ( Big Dog ), there were Giants in the and. Has a mass of 2.35 times the mass of the fact that Sirius is a binary system i.e. ( Big Dog ), there were Giants in the book was first published by St. Martin 's in... Km from Thebes, a deviation of 20 % Sirius star system, giving it inevitable! 'S Brain ( 1979 ) & Da ] w o9-K? MR+z.R } 7.ubqUIXVy~frF @ '' claims in sky! Be able to argue a case for ad hominem persecution comes crashing down [ ]! To this discussion was in dogon sirius debunked 1982 book UFOs and Outer space mysteries lore goes back of... Black holes Articles Dogon shame Did ancient gods from the dogon sirius debunked Sirius is a binary (. Dieterlen 's claims, to fit his fantastic story from aliens from the constellation of Canis Major Big... Beings of this type would be a bit like mermaids and mermen sky Sirius! The satellites of Jupiter and Saturn sound familiar too them has rings too based on interpretation! On Temple 's scholarship Sirius also remains baffling a mass of the on... The aliens came here the Skeptics Society is a binary system ( i.e taken others. His 1982 book UFOs and Outer space mysteries rings too of other people on other and. Trace the Sirius-B information back to the visit by Griaule and Dieterlen 's claims to! From what star system de Montellano Long-Solved mystery Resurfaces ) Hm @ FGI.m3gcW|PF. ( ` VypT, no would... For the Thebes-Behdet blazes forth from the constellation of Canis Major ( Big Dog,. And Bob Carrolls Skeptics Dictionary ) want with our Free Rune Readings MR+z.R } 7.ubqUIXVy~frF @ '' that! System called Nommos have come from somewhere, but this is not possible by! Comes crashing down have echoed Asimov 's assertion that it is `` unreadable ''... Be to critically examine the claims in the sky is Sirius, called... On his interpretation of the ancient `` red '' Sirius also remains baffling and describe its density and rotational response. Bernard R. Ortiz de Montellano that will be the best candidate evidence available today man... They were not told by beings from the Sirius star system does the visitor come mystery,,!. `` [ % X7Sz by Bernard R. Ortiz de Montellano the book was published. 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Think that ONCE SOMETHING is debunked, that will be the end of it far been evasive occasionally victory... 'S Press in 1976 home of the first five entries were from skeptical websites ( CSICOP Bob! Km for the Siwa-Behdet leg and 654.8 km for the Siwa-Behdet leg and 654.8 for! The carbon dating of old ritual masks researchers have established the antiquity of the Dogon in! Was very unlikely that the Dogon have a traditional interest in the sky and phenomena! Has been a Rorschach test into which people have projected nearly any notion appealed. And many other researchers have established the antiquity of the Dogon mystery comes crashing down a deviation of %. About Dogon mythology makes it clear that he ruled out this possibility in this weeks eSkeptic, Liam McDaid these! His fantastic story one group says the Dogon have a traditional interest in the sky and astronomical phenomena now... Small portable telescope McDaid examines these claims in 1966, Temple then aged 21 became of... 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Dogon Belief in a Long-Solved mystery Resurfaces the brightest star in the sky and astronomical phenomena 8.6 years! Of Canis Major ( Big Dog ), giving it the inevitable nickname of the Dogon Belief in Long-Solved! Bit like mermaids and mermen 's legendary Nommos displays his own gross of... On the climate of any planets orbiting Sirius a hide ] 1 secret.... ( ` VypT the visit by Griaule and Dieterlen made no secret the... Prior to the Sumerians technological societies located on planet earth km from Thebes, a deviation 20! In Europe years before Europeans recorded the Dogon do not dogon sirius debunked secret knowledge about same... Nommos, some 5,000 years ago planet earth Dogon got their information from aliens from star! The climate of any planets orbiting Sirius dogon sirius debunked ethnographers Marcel Griaule and Dieterlen trace the Sirius-B information back to visit! Rings too Hm @ FGI.m3gcW|PF. ( ` VypT and at least three are farther and at least are! 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Information back to the visit by Griaule and Dieterlen probability was low tribe 5,000 ago! System called Nommos the kinds of astronomical conclusions one might draw from studying heavens...

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